KATHERINE LAWRENCE INTERVIEW: FREELANCING AWAY FROM L.A. (ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED 2003)

Shannon Muir's Animated Insights Original Logo

Among the top questions that I’ve noticed come up, either in correspondence to me or being at seminars, is people wondering if you can freelance in this business away from Los Angeles. This seems to hold true for artist jobs or non-artist positions such as writers.  Personally, I only know two people who successfully freelance outside the Los Angeles area, and only one of those from out of the state.  Both are writers. 

To give readers the best picture of freelancing away from Los Angeles based on my available resources, I interviewed writer Katherine Lawrence who currently resides in Arizona though she didn’t start out there.  When I asked her how she launched her career, she replied, “Lots of hard work.  No, it wasn’t like ‘How do you get to Carnegie Hall?  Practice, practice, practice.’  Wasn’t through the writing at all. I moved to L.A. after college intending to write scripts, but truth was, I didn’t know nearly enough.  Back in 1980 there were only a few books on screenwriting, almost no contests, and no public Internet.  I was left floundering on my own, and while I did my spec scripts, I hadn’t realized the need for commercial/act breaks, etc., so my live-action specs for
television (FANTASY ISLAND stands out in my memory) were inadequate.  Then in 1981 I got to fulfill a many-year-long dream and learned to play DUNGEONS & DRAGONS,” adding that she  met fellow STAR WARS fans who played and were willing to teach her.

“When the CBS Saturday morning series, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, aired two years later, I adored the series and realized my first love had always been animation, since seeing what I now know to be a Czech production of the Russian fairy tale, THE LITTLE HUMPBACK HORSE, when I was maybe eight years old,” she continued.  “So I sent resumes out to each of the major animation houses, looking for a job as a secretary (which is what I’d been doing to pay the bills).  As time went by without hearing anything, my attention focused on Marvel Productions, who produced the D&D series.  It took a full year of letters, phone calls, and resumes every couple of months before I had the timing right and got an interview as secretary for the Vice President, Network Development.”

Katherine did get the job, and she did her best “to learn everything I could and talked to
everyone at the studio.  One of the people I spent time chatting with was Karl Geurs, producer of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS.  Karl had a totally brilliant sense of story and a dedication to quality that made him one of the two best producers Marvel had, in my opinion.  We’d talk storyboards, plot, characters, the original TSR material, everything about the show, whenever we both had the opportunity.  I never formally pitched to him, nor did a spec script, we just talked.  Then one day he called me down to his office and told me he’d pitched one of my ideas to CBS and they wanted me to ‘go to outline.’  That was one day before my birthday and so far it’s the best
birthday present I’ve ever received. That script became, ‘Citadel of Shadow,’ highlighting the least used character, Sheila, and introducing Venger’s sister.   Thus a career was born.”

Then I asked Katherine if she thought she could have found any way to accomplish what transpired other than moving to Los Angeles.  “No,” she affirmed. “TV animation, even in the boom of the mid-1980s, was based on networking.  Knowing people.  If you didn’t network, you didn’t get work.  Today it’s theoretically possible to make the connections via the internet and attending events like ComicCon International each summer in San Diego, but it would make it a lot tougher than being in L.A., having face time. Yes, one story editor comes to mind who lived in Ireland and story edited via CompuServe, but she had already built her L.A. connections and her
co-story editor lived in L.A. so could attend meetings.  She also had a major reputation as a fantasy/science fiction book writer, which I’m sure helped.”

I wondered if Katherine ever worked on staff or always worked freelance.  She reminded that she “started freelancing in addition to a full-time job as a secretary.  Had to write scripts in two days since I didn’t own a computer of my own, so used the one on my desk at work.  Once I quit that job (for various reasons), I did temp work then got the opportunity to be a staff writer at
Filmation.  I knew it was short-term going in, but I was willing to take my chances.  It lasted six weeks and I learned a lot. Unfortunately that was my last staff job.  I continued temping as a
secretary between script assignments, but it took a major illness before I went full-time freelance,” after getting a case of mono that became Chronic Fatigue which left her bed-bound for nearly a year.  “Since then I’ve been freelance.  And in 1993 moved to Arizona, mere months ahead of the
Northridge Quake.”

Katherine felt ready to be a freelance away from Los Angeles “[w]hen I got sick of the riots, the traffic, the noise, the earthquakes, the general aura of rage that hangs over the city, I knew it was time to leave.  After thirteen years living in the City of Angels I’d gone from ‘I Love L.A.’ to ‘By the Time I Get to Phoenix.’  It didn’t look like I’d ever be hired on staff, so there was no reason NOT to leave, given the internet and the connections I’d built up over the years.”

The factors that need to be taken into consideration when deciding an area to live in away from Los Angeles and yet remain in touch with the industry vary by the individual, in Katherine’s opinion.  “I know a number of screenwriters quite happy to be isolated in Montana, Wyoming, and other extremely rural locations, but they’re feature film writers, not television.  For myself, I was looking at areas with a major university (for library access and cultural opportunities), mountains, and easily accessible to L.A. without being IN California.  Where I currently live, I’m a day’s drive from L.A. if I need  to have my car with me (as I do if I stay for more than 1-2 days given the cost of car rental), and less than two hours by air.  I can do day trips in and out same day if I need to for meetings.  And because it’s a major business route, the air fares stay pretty cheap and the planes frequent, so I can do last-minute trips without stripping my savings.  Other criteria included affordable housing, 24-hour grocery stores, and good pizza delivery.  Hey, I’m a writer!”

When I asked Katherine what benefits she felt living in Arizona, her first response: “Breathing!” She continued by saying, “Not just physically but psychologically.  There’s a level of  tension in L.A. where it feels to me like everyone’s on edge.  While that was exciting when I first arrived there, now it’s tiring.  I also have a large two-bedroom corner apartment, wrap-around patio with a view of the mountains, wood-burning fireplace, and my own washer and dryer, for the cost of a studio in the Valley!   My state taxes were cut in half, my car insurance dropped, and did I mention breathing?

“Oddly enough, I actually got more work once I moved.  People don’t remember precisely where I moved, but they remember me as someone who left L.A. and moved to either Arizona or New Mexico.  It’s all about being remembered.  Being yet another faceless writer in L.A. meant I was
forgotten when story editors put lists of potential writers together. And did I mention breathing?  Being in a place with its own water sources that doesn’t depend on an earthquake-vulnerable aqueduct?  I may be in a zone that matches L.A. for probability, but we have far fewer fault lines, and it’s not going to destroy our interstates and sources of food and water when we do have large quakes.  On a very pragmatic level I realized it was insane and suicidal to continue living in  L.A.  Yes, my career would possibly be more successful if I came back.  I know this.  And I have NO chance at live-action television staff positions from here, and there’s almost no live-action freelance work these days.  It’s worth it.”

That’s not to say some things haven’t gotten more difficult.  “Jerry’s Deli doesn’t deliver here.  Well, not without FedEx fees (I imagine),” Katherine started out light-heartedly.  Then, shifting to a serious tone: “Yes, after nearly ten years here, I’m starting to be forgotten.  But the animation business has changed a lot since I started in 1984.  There’s FAR less work, and a lot of animation writers have had to find other sources of income, some of them leaving the business altogether.  So I can’t blame my location for lack of work.  Thanks to a wonderful agent, I still get assignments, usually from story editors I’ve worked with before.  It’s just harder to make a living in animation writing, no matter where you live.”

There’s a couple shows Katherine wishes she’d gotten a chance to write for.  “First, JACKIE CHAN ADVENTURES which is simply wonderful.  I watch it and wish it’d been on when I was a kid.  Jade is such a terrific character, and I really admire Jackie Chan for the live-action segments that end each episode.   Second, BATMAN BEYOND.  Wow.  Total brilliance on every single level, especially the writing.   Okay, three.  KIM POSSIBLE is great.  I hope it has a long life and maybe even a movie.   (“Call me, beep me, if you wanna reach me …. ”  <sorry, love the theme song too>)”  What’s she’s enjoyed writing most over her career was her work on X-MEN: EVOLUTION.  “I got to write for two characters I’ve loved since I discovered The X-Men:  Wolverine and Rogue.  And I got to bring in my English Lit degree with Shakespeare quotes!  If that had been my last credit (and it wasn’t), I’d have died happy.”


The favorite memory in Katherine’s career to date came “[a]t the WGA’s Animation Writers Caucus Annual Meeting in 2001.”  She points out that “almost no one was working that October.  So one could compliment a fellow writer without it being ‘sucking up.’  They had no work to offer!   But at that meeting I arrived planning on thanking one writer in particular for her wonderful
work on my favorite show.  It took time, given the large group of people and how many who wanted to talk to her, but I finally got my chance and we chatted.  Late last year when I heard of her death, I not only mourned her, but was incredibly grateful to have made the effort to thank her for her BATMAN BEYOND scripts.  Hilary J. Bader.  I hate knowing I’ll never get the chance to chat with her again, comparing industry stories, and never see a new script from her.  She was extraordinary.”

Our exchange closed with me asking Katherine that if she were just starting out today, did she think it would be possible now to launch a career as a freelancer from anywhere.  “I wouldn’t suggest anyone try and break into animation these days, unless their first love is the SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS age group.  That part of animation is still doing moderately well, or so it seems.  My personal favorite, the action adventure genre, is now limited to only a few shows and those story editors tend to (for good reason) use the writers they’ve worked with before.

“But if you want to write for Hollywood, yeah, I firmly believe everyone needs to spend SOME time there.  Getting a feel for the Hollywood culture is essential.  It’s not unique, but different.  I was in a conversation with a software documentations writer and a NYC book editor one evening and even when we used the same terminology, the definitions were different. In television it’s important to be there for “face time.”  I miss out on a lot of meetings because I’m simply not there.  Most of them are “meet and greets” that don’t generate immediate income possibilities, but that doesn’t mean they’re not useful.  I don’t get chances at development work since lots of in-studio meetings seem to be essential these days.

“If one wants to sell a script or two, yeah I think you can live far away, work via the Internet, and count on luck.  If you want to begin a full-time career, I believe you need to be there, or close enough to get into L.A. easily and frequently.  An eight-hour drive is a bit too far to fit those
criteria. For myself, I have no desire to move back full-time, though of course I’d happily come back for a staff position, staying at Oakwood Apartments while keeping my place in Arizona.  My heart’s no longer in L.A., for all it’ll always be in animation.  For me, animation is magic.  I can write about castles as easily as shacks, and they don’t cost any more to produce!   For someone who loves science fiction and fantasy, to do it for television and the mass market ordinary animation still works best.”

Thank you so much, Katherine, for sharing your thoughts.

(originally at Digital Media FX)

KIMBER NORQUEST INTERVIEW: ANIMATION DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANT (ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED 2003)

Shannon Muir's Animated Insights Original Logo

Being in development doesn’t necessarily mean creating the shows.  There still must be people at the studio or network evaluating the ideas and deciding if they are something that organization can successfully turn into a program.  To get more of a feel of the administrative side of development, I asked a few questions of Kimber Norquest, Development Assistant at Sony Pictures Family Entertainment.

We started our conversation defining development in television animation.  “From a studio/production company point of view there are two tracks, similar to features or non-animated tv,” Kimber explained.  “Development is usually the option of a project that has a set of pitch pages or mini-bible and base concept artwork, tailoring it to the prospective buyers, firming up the bible/pitch pages and creating a pitch package.  For a book based property, you would option the book, hire a writer to develop a pitch pages/concept for the series based on a children’s book (based on the exec’s creative focus).  You might also have internal development, which may be a spin off of a series or project that you currently have that’s successful (think of all the Disney’s series based off of their animated movies/existing properties).”  She got her first job as an animation development assistant based on contacts made while working in the Information Technology Department at Spelling.  “I had been taking several courses through UCLA Extension program to learn film and tv development.  One of the managers at Spelling knew that I was looking to make a transition into creative/development.  His best friend was looking for an assistant.  Tom made the referral and I was brought in to meet the hiring execs.  I had great interviews and was offered the job. Note, the position was a UNION 174 position,” officially known as the Office and Professional Employees International Union, Kimber emphasized.  “Many jobs with studios could be a Union position – you’d be locked into a 3% raise per year, and paying dues.  But the benefits are pretty decent with Union 174.”


Typical assistant duties, according to Kimber, include “[a]nswering the phones, filing, managing the rolodex, maintaining the call sheet, reading scripts (both spec and submissions) and doing coverage,” with coverage defined as a process of writing systematic evaluations of scripts to evaluate the quality of the story and how marketable a script is for a given company. “If you’re lucky, you’ll be able to take pitch meetings, and meet and greet meetings as you put in your dues,” she noted.  “If you want a career in animation and want to move up the ranks, definitely do notes on incoming projects, help find character designers and by all means, keep your eyes open for projects that your company would be interested in looking at.”

“1 in 20 or so,” was the number of projects, in Kimber’s experience at Sony Pictures Family Entertainment, that progress through development and make it all the way to being aired.  Concepts seem to successfully make their way through development when the property has “the ability to meet the criteria of what the network is looking for in addition to having merchandising abilities (toys, action figures, cereal ties ins, etc).” but even stating that, you need to keep in mind that nothing can completely guarantee a concept will make it past development.

When I asked Kimber what she personally enjoys most about working in animation development, she said it was “[t]he creativity that animation gives us for projects – lots of action/adventure and fantasy.  It’s a real kick to tell people that I make Saturday morning cartoons!”  As to anything not terribly exciting, her only response was “filing,” with a smile.  The most common route of advancement from a development assistant position, “depending on the company and what the person had done,” notes Kimber,  “the next step could be Creative Associate, Manager of Development, then Creative Executive.”


As to her own long term goals, Kimber said that her “long term goal was to become a feature executive/producer.  That may change,” and added that “[n]o matter what my goals become/where I end up, I’ve learned the creative process that is generally the same in animation, live tv or film.  I’ve learned to build relationships and spot which projects have a better chance than most to be developed by us or bought by a network.”



If anyone who wants to get into animation development, Kimber recommends that someone “[k]now the cartoons on the air” and to “get a hold of spec or actual animation scripts and understand them/the structure.”  Also,  “[l]ook at tie-ins, both toys and food.”  If you are specifically interested in pre-school programming, “learn about the development of children” and “what’s hot with the pre-school set.  If possible, get a hold of a pre-school show’s educational goals/mission statement and read/understand them (all pre-school shows have educational consultants that help with the formation of the show and the underlying educational content).”  No matter what your area of interest, be sure to “[g]et to know agents around town in animation,” or which there are a handful, and lastly, “learn how to develop relationships over the phone.”

Thank you, Kimber, for this behind-the-scenes inside of the administrative side of development.

(originally published at Digital Media FX)

DEAN STEFAN INTERVIEW: STORY EDITING THE SEQUEL OR REMAKE SERIES (ORIGINALLY RELEASED 2002)

Shannon Muir's Animated Insights Original Logo

It’s been a staple for decades — television shows based on other source material, be it books, movies, games, or a variety of other things.  Perhaps, however, one of the biggest challenges comes when a television show (whether original or adapted from prior source material) generates a spinoff or is remade years later.  To take a look at the pros and cons of working on a sequel or remake series, I exchanged questions with Dean Stefan, who at the time of the interview worked as a Story Editor of the 2002 revival of HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE.  His credits also include Producer/Story Editor for JACKIE CHAN ADVENTURES, Story Editor for MEN IN BLACK, Story Editor for EXTREME GHOSTBUSTERS, Head Writer for CATDOG, and five years staff writing at Walt Disney Television Animation for shows like DARKWING DUCK, TALE SPIN, GOOF TROOP, and QUACK PACK.

First, I noted that Dean’s cropped up as a story editor on series that have served as sequels to successful animated shows like EXTREME GHOSTBUSTERS, and also been at the helm on series that retell successful animated stories such as the 2002 version of HE-MAN, in addition to his work on shows directly adapted from other media.  That left me wondering if he felt any great pressure that he had expectations to live up to, or not.  “Probably more so with HE-MAN then with EXTREME GHOSTBUSTERS,” Dean replied.  “Coupla reasons for that.  First off, GHOSTBUSTERS is/was a comedy.  I think that gives you certain license.   If you’re funny, many sins are forgiven.  Whereas in HE-MAN, you have mythic-fantasy-action-adventure.  Fans of this genre tend to be pretty hardcore (think of Star Wars, Trekkies,  etc.)   They know the world inside and out – they know the characters.   Speaking of which, we had the advantage in EXTREME GHOSTBUSTERS of having, for the most part, a new set of characters, with only Janine, Egon and Slimer being holdovers.  So we were creating a new show in many ways.  Compare that with HE-MAN, where virtually all of the principal good and bad guys are the same as in the old.  The challenge then becomes: how do you keep what’s good, improve upon what isn’t – attract new fans while not alienating the old.  And in so doing, you wanna still not lose that magical component, that ‘likeability’ or charm, that made the old show and its characters so well-loved.” 

Dean went on to cite an additional example for comparison.  “Another show I worked on, MEN IN BLACK, had a different set of challenges.  You’re essentially basing it off of a movie.  You need to find what elements of the film can be extracted, extrapolated, and played out over the course of a series.  In that case, the ‘heavy lifting’ had been done by others — Duane Capizzi, in particular.”  Unlike the previous examples where he worked with them from practically the outset,  “I was coming in on the 3rd and 4th seasons, so my challenge was more along the lines of keeping it fresh, adding a few new characters to the mix.  Coming back to the theme of your question –  in a sense,  any time you take over as story editor of a show that’s been around a few seasons, you’re doing a ‘sequel’ of sorts.   You’re building on what’s come before.

“Well, as most of us toiling here in the fields of animation know, you take ‘em as they come,” he said when I asked how Dean ended up working on his first sequel or remake series.   “Remake, reimagining, retelling, reboot….series based on  <<insert word here — movie, comic book, stuffed doll, screensaver>>> …cartoons seem to come from any and all quarters.  So the simple answer is:  I was offered the job.   I believe it was on THE MASK.”

It seemed to me that preexisting standards to live up to would present some interesting challenges, compared to story editing concepts completely new and untested, so I asked Dean what his take was.  “Gives you something to build on.  I like having parameters and rules – long as they can be stretched and added to.  MEN IN BLACK would be a good example.  There were a lot of parameters set by the feature and the cartoon more or less built on those:  A secret organization whose job is to police aliens who live on earth, unbeknownst to the general populace; the rookie and the veteran; the cool versus the square; aliens hiding in unexpected places, up to no good.   That’s pretty much everything you need to build stories on – i.e. an interesting world, compelling characters and ongoing conflict.

“As for HE-MAN, I enjoy the epic fantasy world.  It’s amazing how a fantasy setting can give you opportunities to do stories relevant to real world problems; you can tackle issues such as good and evil, morality, adoption, addiction – you name it.  But because it’s cloaked in ‘another galaxy, another time,’ it won’t feel heavy-handed.   Whereas if you did that in a ‘gang comedy/kids at school’ kinda show, it would feel preachy and movie-of-the-weeky.  (I think I’ve coined a really bad phrase there.) “

When asked if there was anything else he enjoyed about working in pre-established universes while bringing his own take to the table, Dean added, “Well, certainly, you always bring your own abilities and sensibilities to the show at hand.   Presumably, that is why they hired you.  On the other hand, if I were to bring a certain style of banter that was used in GHOSTBUSTERS to the HE-MAN universe, it most likely wouldn’t work. 

“To go off on a slight tangent, I think that’s something that inexperienced writers often don’t understand.  Job one is:  you need to write in the vernacular of the particular show you’re on.    For example, you may be hired for HE-MAN because someone loved your JACKIE CHAN script, but it was because it was a great JACKIE CHAN script.  Don’t give the producers a JACKIE CHAN sensibility for HE-MAN – give them a HE-MAN sensibility.  To put it another way, you may be the best writer on FRASIER, but when you get hired to do a script for REBA, then FRASIER-type jokes ain’t the right tone.  This may seem obvious, but you’d be surprised at how many writers fall into this ‘one size fits all’ approach.   So, you really need to find the ‘voice’ of the show.   Each is unique —  not all action adventure shows…or comedies are created equal.   Finding the language, the tone of the show is as important as how you approach structure, plot, etc. ” 

As to what he doesn’t like about working in pre-existing universes: “Well, of course you can be frustrated if you feel limited.   Certain parameters, backstory and characters are gonna be part of the show – that’s a given.   But I try and go into any show I’m working on realizing what the realities and parameters are.   Knowing what you’re getting into is always the best way to avoid frustration – and to keep your sanity.”

One of the big challenges with a sequel or remake series involves the existence of a strong fanbase of the predecessor show.  In regard to his thoughts as to the importance of the feelings of the original series fans when approaching a sequel or remake series, Dean explained, “Well, again with HE-MAN, I’d have to say very important.   The fan base has remained huge for almost twenty years.  Indeed, I’d say a major reason that the show was relaunched was due to the ongoing enthusiasm of those fans.  To ignore them wouldn’t just be impolite, it’d be downright foolish.  They deserve to have something that they’ll be pleased with.  And it gives us something to shoot for: we know if we can please the hardcore, the avid fans, we’ve done a good job.

“Having said that, the danger of this is that if you only cater to the pre-existing fan base, you may not have a successful show – because they may not be the target demographic (i.e. kids),” referring to the goals set by the producers and financial backers of the show.  “So the challenge is to reintroduce characters and mythology in a compelling way – which will feel fresh to the old fans, yet understandable to the new.”

I met Dean for the first time at Comic-Con International: San Diego 2002 after watching him as part of a panel that appeared at the convention in conjunction with the release of the new HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE series. “Well, it was great to meet some of the He-Man fans in person,” he said when speaking about the panel experience.  “I wasn’t surprised that they were enthusiastic – I mean they’ve waited a long time for HE-MAN to return to the airwaves.   They are passionate about HE-MAN — they really love the old show, the toys, and the mythology.   I knew I had to be ‘on my game’ and do my homework, as chances are I’d be asked questions about some obscure character or some episode from Season Two of the old Filmation series.  And sure enough, some of the questions were doozies.   If anything surprised me, it was how savvy the old fans were about the realities of the cartoon business.    They understand that this show will have to appeal to a whole new generation and therefore change and updating are going to have to happen.   I was pleasantly surprised at how readily most of the old fans embrace change.”

I closed by asking Dean if he would work on another sequel or remake series, given the joys and challenges he’d cited earlier. “I would work on any show that I felt I could sink my teeth into.   Regardless of whether it’s a sequel a remake or a totally new idea, fact is you’ve still gotta come up with fresh stories every week.  So in that sense, it’s always new.   When all is said and done, a sequel or remake has to stand on its own, become an entity unto itself, and be judged upon its own merits.   If it’s good, it may wind up as popular, or more so than the original.   Consider three of the most beloved and ‘original’ shows on TV:  FRASIER was a sequel to CHEERS;  THE SIMPSONS was spun-off from THE TRACY ULLMAN SHOW, and ALL IN THE FAMILY was a remake of a British series.”     

(Originally on Digital Media FX)